Discussion Post #11

The three principles of Sun Yat-sen's revolutionary program for China are simple. The first was to get ride of the western infulence, and by that he seeked nationalism. Sun wanted a national spirit to uprise, and fight the economic and political control of the westerns which rendered China. The second was withoholding a republican form of goverment as seen in Europe and America, seperating China from the emperor and ancient traditions. In doing this Sun needed to enforce education so that the democracy system could work. Sun's work in education greatly influenced increase the population on literate Chinese, and today their numbers are still high. As Mr. Waddell said, "China is soon to have more college graduates than America has people", proving Sun's great influence. The third principle was "Peoples Livelihood". This was Sun's strive to gain new technology and more production. His goal was to lessen the gap between the rich and poor, and by doing so he wanted to industrialize, avoiding the un stabble western style of industrializing. Sun was not in favor of Marxism but preferred state ownership and state power.
After Sung's first attempts to other throw the manchus and the american and japanese powers, only the manchus revolt was successful. This then began his struggle to enforce his 3 principles. Through these principles Sun was greatly respected and recognized, yet his plan was not employed. Although he did infuence Chiang and Mao to fight for power after his death. This brough on Chinas communism.

First among Sun's three principles was to throw off the yoke of foreign imperialism from the Manchus to the Europeans. Second he wanted to have a democracy in China. Lastly he wanted to make China a better economic power, and to expand industry. He wanted to avoid huge gaps between rich and poor. His principles helped to get rid of inept foreign rule, and it helped China industrialize. However his two disciples Mao and Chiang found different ways to express the third principle, Mao saw it as advocating for agrarian revolution, while Chiang took more to heart Sun's original message.

Responding to Audrey I agree with your statements. Even though Sun was greatly venerated as the founder of modern China his last two principles were never acted upon. China still doesn't have a functioning democracy and his last message has been corrupted into communism.

Sun Yat-sen's three principles were nationalism, democracy, and "people's livelihood"
Nationalism included driving out the Manchus that had been in power since 1644, a common theme in China at this time. Furthermore, the Europeans were also asserting their influence economically, as shown in the treaty ports, the Opium Wars, and the suppression of the Boxer Rebellion. Again, this principle basically stemmed from China's key political problems at this time.
Democracy was likely a product of European influence, and was meant to unify China's crumbling government. The imperial system that had been in place for two thousand years could not keep pace with a rapidly industrializing world. By presenting a new form entirely, Sun Yat-sen was attempting to solve the social issues. In a way, Sun Yat-sen is going through all of the PERSIA areas of China, examining the problems, and coming up with solutions.
The last principle is the most confusing. "People's livelihood" stated that technology and industry needed to catch up to the rest of the world, but that the state should control it to prevent the Western class distinctions of rich and poor from arising. Although it sounds similar to Marxism, the focus was not the same in rural China, where the working proletariat essentially did not exist yet.
These principles were the basis for both rising revolutionary groups, but the way they planned on going about them would diverge, creating the split. The communists decided to create a revolution of the peasants, while the GMD focused on military and authority.

@Frank: I agree with your explanations and causes. In the way that the two revolution groups differ, I thought your points were interesting. I had not considered the fact that Mao Zedong wanted more of an agrarian revolution, although it makes sense considering his emphasis was on the peasantry rising up. I am not sure that I would say that Chiang adhered more closely to Sun Yat-sen's original intent, but rather that the two groups went about the third principle in different ways. Overall, your ideas were very thought-provoking.

Tommy,
I agree with your response that although Sun wanted to industrialize, he did not agree with Marx, being that he did not want capital power or the politcal power the westerns had. He felt that after witnessing the Europeans and westerns industies, they were unstable and wanted to rely on the state power and ownership because the focus was not in rural china. In the end his prinicples were in tact, yet their planning lead to the split and communist takeover.

The "Three Principles" of Sun Yat-sen's revolutionary program for China are quite basic and were put forth for the well-being of China. The fist one was nationalism and it "called for revolution against political control" (Spodek 679). He felt as if every nation was more better off compared to China and that in order to save their country from falling deeper and deeper into the blackhole of poverty, the Chinese would all have to come together with nationalism and pride for their country so that they could save their country. The second principle was democracy and he took the republic form of government that was in Europe and America because he realized that no democratic system was going to evolve in China otherwise. The third principle was "People's Livelihood" and it was basically "Sun's ambivalence towards Western Technology". He was uncertain as to how effective adapting Western Technology would be for China and so he didn't choose the Western style of industrialization.
Sun may have derived these ideas from Europe and America (in fact according to the textbook his idea of democracy did come from there because he knew that China wouldn't be able to come up with their own form of democracy.) In addition, he also may have come up with these ideas from Marx. Although his policy was not Marxist, he did fear that a wealthy class was going to emerge and perhaps Marxism may gave triggered this fear.
The next question is how did Sun's principles address China's problems at the time. I pretty much already said this above: His nationalism one addressed the problem of China falling behind other nations and he instituted this principle of nationalism to hopefully unite the Chinese people and help bring salvation to China. His democracy principle addressed China's problems because it gave China a structured central government and perhaps gave more power to the people and made them less rebellious and more "tameable." The last principle, "People's Livelihood" addressed China's problem of lack of machinery and lack of communication systems such as railroads and waterways.
These principles may have later foreshadowed a later split among Chinese Revolutionaries because although both groups (Communists and GMD) used these principles as a basic plan, they ways in which they planned to go about and achieve them greatly differed. As Tommy said, the communist went about these by creating a peasant revolution and the GMD went about this by building up the military.

Sun-Yat Sen's Three Principles were simply nationalism, democracy, and the people's livelihood.
In nationalism, he wanted to remove foreign influence that had ruined China, such as the British opium. This may have been derived from other isolationist successes, and possibly the French Revolution, arguably the start of nationalism.
Democracy is the increase of literacy, as literacy is needed to vote. This is likely derived from the United States.
The people's livelihood is mostly a focus on the increase of productivity of the nation. This was due to the gap between the rich and poor and may have been derived from Adam Smith's theories.

Sun Yat-Sen's 3 people's principles are Nationalism, Democracy, and people's livelihood.

Nationalism was the simplest of the principles. Basically he wanted everyone to love China and be proud to be chinese.

Democracy was basically that he wanted everyone to have a say in how their government is run. Unfortunately, since so many of the Chinese were illiterate and uneducated they did not know what was best for the country and so this need for democracy also required that the people be educated.

Under people's livelihood, Sun wanted a smaller gap between the rich and the poor. Instead of equal distribution as Marx says, Sun wants an increase in production.

I believe most of his ideas were derived from Europe both East and West including Russia. He took the idea of Nationalism from how the French were so nationalist that they had a revolution and improved their government. Democracy also came from Western Europe, as most of those countries were democracy's. Lastly, people's livelihood was a general thing, he wanted everyone to be happy and safe and he felt that required an increase in production.

At the time, China was a lot like Russia and it tried to help itself the same way as Russia did. This also foreshadows the split because as we know the Russian Revolution also resulted in a split of the government groups.

Basically, the three principles were not different from Mr. Waddell wanting our classes to "strive for five" on the AP Exam. Yat-sen simply wanted the best for his people which is why he developed the three principles.

Responding to what Tommy said I agree when you said that democracy was a western innovation. If Europeans hadn't gave the Chinese ideas about democracy,then China would probably just had another dynasty installed. The mandate of heaven idea was only destroyed with the introduction of new ideas, so if no new ideas were introduced they would have done the same thing traditionally.

Sun Yat-sen's "Three Principles" for a revolution in China were simple ideas aimed at making a better and more effective China for the people. The first of these was to eliminate foreign political and economic control and the influence of the Manchus. At this time, China was unstable and almost completely colonized, hardly united by any form of government. Yat-sen said this needed to change. He required that there be local control of all things Chinese. The foreigners would have to be evicted. Sun likely got this idea when traveling through Western countries and seeing their centralization. This also may have come from the more ancient China in that all of their successful years were under strong, central government with isolationist principles.
The second of these was democracy. He asserted that this was needed in order to promote civility and enhance the common standards of living. He wanted to give the oppressed more power and say in their government. This would help level the playing field. Poor and rich would at least in some way be equal. This idea most obviously came from his travels in the West such as the U.S. He saw this idea and the things that it did for the people and overall condition of the country. Along with this, he hoped to adapt it to do the same to their own country. He did see parts of it, separation of powers in specific, as coming from ancient China, however. He said that some of democracy as it is known in the West was once Chinese.
The third principle was simply entitled "People's Livelihood". In this, he proposed swift modernization and industrialization. He saw that China was incredibly behind, with only 1 in 400 in the industrial world. This needed to change if they were to become a respectable force. Much of this, obviously, including the sources of inspiration and initiation, was influenced by the West. Sun came up with his own method, though, that did not allow for the gigantic economic gap between poor and rich. He called for state regulation and ownership of some of business to prevent this.
These three principles foreshadowed the split of the revolution into the GMD and CCP in that they inspired the two leaders that would lead China into the new age. Though they were both inspired by the same words and same man, however, they saw a means to these goals and interpreted their actual meanings far differently. Without Sun around to lead them, these made for violent confrontations and conflicts between the two.

Elan,
I completely agree with your definitions of the "Three Principles". Your mention of the first as nationalism and the elimination of the corrupting foreign influences was key. You also used one of the best examples of this: the British opium trade. They needed all of this out in order to secure their own economic interests and steer the country in the way they saw fit. This is impossible when others are using it for their own country's gain, as was the case in colonialism and Western influence overall. Though they would accept parts of it later, they must first establish their own identity at home and in the world stage of politics in order to be able to effectively make decisions concerning such matters. I also like your mention of the very origins of nationalism in the French Revolution as a possible source. He absolutely had a focus on increasing literacy, as well, so this is extremely important in his second principle. Your mention of Adam Smith in the last of the principles is also incredibly important as he was the one who founded the entire idea of the free market economy, capitalism, everything that Sun needed in order to industrialize as he wanted to.

Sun-Yat Sen wanted to get rid of western rulers, establish democracy and build China's economy. The latter two were compatible, but China could not succeed independently. Sun-Yat Sen could have gotten the ideas from the averge citizens of China, who would most want democracy and economic regeneration, and would see foreigners most as a threat. Sun-Yat might have made progress if it were not for his untimely death and violent deciples, but I doubt he could have obtained his goals without massive bloodshed.

Thought to be the inspiration and founder of both the National People’s Party (GMD) and the communists, Sun Yat-sen developed the “Three People’s Principles”. These three concepts inspired by the Western world include nationalism, democracy, and the “People’s Livelihood”. Nationalism requested that a revolution against foreign control occur as China at this time was considered to be controlled by many nations. De Barry states, “We are not just the slaves of one country, but the slaves of many countries…” (Spodek 680). Therefore, he felt that only the spirit and love for the country (along with the expulsion of foreigners such as the Manchus) could return their power. Additionally, democracy was seen as being appropriate regarding the new stages of development and industrialization that was being set into place (the 2000-year-old system was not enough to sustain this wave of change). Along with this new form of government, education was in dire need of improvement as literacy rates were required to rise in order to inform the public. Lastly, the “People’s Livelihood” can be described as the need for organization in addition to technology. As both of these would be influenced by Western culture, Sun Yat-sen made one point clear: that he would not allow the giant class gap of the West to carry into his country. To prevent the enormous gap, he suggested that state ownership be applied; though he concentrated on the lack of production rather than unequal distribution (contrary to Marx and his proletariat). These principles accurately foreshadowed the split between the groups as they handled each in a diverse manner; the GMD led by Chiang won over the warlords, military, and those in power, whereas the communists led by Mao encouraged a revolution by the peasants.

James, I agree with your first response as you restated the principles in a different way. I had never considered the fact that Sun Yat-sen received these ideals from his own people (or the peasants of China) as I had always thought his sole influence as being the Western world. Additionally, I agree with your point as you stated that he may have been able to carry out his ideas, which would have been done in a violent manner as his two groups did.

Audrey, I agree with your response as you cleverly described the “Three People’s Principles”. Furthermore, you are absolutely correct in highlighting that Sun Yat-sen called for an increase in literacy rates in order for the suggested democratic government to function properly (and therefore, a greater focus on education was necessary).

Sun's Three Principles were to:
1. "Purify" the Chinese political system by expelling the supposedly corrupt Manchus and exploitative foreign influence

2. Establish a system of republican democracy that had a balance of power and would serve the people

3. Industrialize China for a productive and efficient Chinese economy that benefited all Chinese without profound economic inequality.

Essentially, these steps are just a way of creating a new and better society for China by removing the old government, creating a new one that is stable and balanced, and creating an economy that would strengthen China and ensure the longevity of the new system. This entire plan was essentially to improve the condition of the working manor the proletariat and the peasants. These workers had poor conditions because they were being exploited and taken advantage of by their rulers and the European countries that attempted, fairly successfully, to control China. This accounts for the frist two principles, which would establish a government that would serve the people instead of enslaving them. The people were also suffering because they worked with inferior an antequated equipment and techniques. The third principle was just to make sure the people were working in the most efficient and therfore least arduous way possible.

i think when he was thinking of the rules he was trying to do the best for his nation because he thought that there was too many foreign people there and people were getting screwed by the government. also with the industrializing he wanted things to be better off and easier for the country. so his main thought was country comes first

the first of the sun's 3 principles was that they had to get rid of foriegn influence, which Chiang definatly failed to do, in which caused him not to have a lot of support from the peasants. the 2nd principle was democracy, and mao did not flollow this. his 3rd principle was to improve technology and livlyhood, which mao had issyues trying to do for everyone.

Josh,
I love your emphasis on Sun's desire to "improve the condition of the working manor the proletariat and the peasants". I definitely didn't touch on that enough. Obviously, however, most of these revolutions come from the common people and their ideas on how to elevate their status. These ideas are extremely appealing the majority of the people living within countries undergoing revolutions because there tends to be a giant amount of oppressed and poor people living within these countries. This was true of China. The Manchus were ineffective and unpopular, mainland China was rife with negative Western influence and the worsened conditions that came with it, and the people had had enough. Sun proposed their way out and specific instructions as to that goal. With these, he gained the support of incredible amounts of Chinese people in such conditions. The Communist revolution in Russia that leads to the eventual formation of the Soviet Union is very similar to this, Lenin being Sun and using the same tactics and promises to gain the support of the oppressed majority.

By now, we all know that Sun Yat-Sen believed in nationalism, democracy, and the livelihood of the people.

I think he turned to previous examples for guidance. He was heavily influenced by the Western world and even those countries around him, such as Russia and France. France's nationalist sentiments in the 1800s could have been a perfect example of a country rising up together as a powerful force, throwing themselves back into the competition for power; this was exactly what China needed to propel forward into the "new age".
Democracy could have been revealed to him through the state America had been in for the last 200ish years. As the only successful democratic revolution of that time, America had moved forward with surprising speed to become a great world power. By not suppressing the ideas of its people, the country had flourished. Sun Yat-Sen wanted China to do the same.
Finally, the improvement of people's livelihood. As an intelligent thinker, Sun Yat-Sen understood that as living conditions and occupations improve, people will not only be pleased with their government, but will have the opportunity to turn their attention to other things. This will cause an increase in the intellectual (and possibly artistic) field. He saw this work with Russia's revolution, and many others before it.
Both the GMD and the Communists agreed with and pulled from these three principles, but they split in terms of acheiving these goals. While GMD focused on the upper classes, such as military men, the Communists appealed to the common, everday workers and peasants. Their different methods sparked different parties, and the group split.

Sean-

I completely agree with you here! Great way to really elaborate on Sun Yat-Sen's principles and explain them more fully. I especially like the way you explained "People's Livelihood": "In this, he proposed swift modernization and industrialization. He saw that China was incredibly behind, with only 1 in 400 in the industrial world". Perfect motivation for him to propel China forward in all aspects. Good insights.

Sun Yat-sen's 3 Principles were mainly Western ideas because Sun wanted to be like the west. The first was nationalism, which wanted to expel any foreign policies and control. This caused China to drive out others from their country. Sun thought that China would be better off without any of the other countries holding them back. Pride in the country was important for China in order to help it evolve.
His second principle was democracy, and this was a model of the Western world. Sun said that China must turn to west for help since he wanted China to be a republic. The intelligence of the country could be increased by bettering education, or teaching people how to read. And so the Chinese people would be more informed about policies and could form a democracy.
His third principle was "People's Livelihood", which said that China needed better technology. But they should not get it from the west because then there would be rich and poor people. Instead he wanted the state to control everything. Most of these principles came from the West because Sun wanted to be like that, but with no Marxist government. There should be democracy, but there should be state ownership to better the enterprises. This caused the communists and Sun's GMD to split. The communists assembled all of the peasants on their side while the GMD focused mainly on the military. In the end the Communists won in the revolution.

The three principles of Sun Yat-Sen's program were nationalism, democracy, and people's livelihood. Yat-sen intended to make China a strong, independent nation by driving out the Manchus and eliminating European influence. He also wanted to establish a system of democracy that would serve the people. Lastly, he emphasized industrialization that would not create economic inequality, but would benefit all of China. These principles attempted to address China's significant problems of inequality and inefficiency.

@Priya: I agree. Sun Yat-sen's motivation for advocating nationalism was that he wanted China to become a strong, independent nation. This could be accomplished through uniting China emotionally and politically.

Sun Yat-sen was greatly influenced by the West and he mixed his traditional ideas with those of the West. Sun's three principles focus around the West. However, Sun also added his own ideas. He took bits and pieces of different forms of government. He looked toward the West, but did some methods differently. Sun did not accept Marxism. As we all know, Sun's three principles were nationalism, democracy, and "people's livelihood". First of all, nationalism called for a revolution against foreign control. They were tired of foreign rule and they wanted to be their own country and make their own decisions. His second principle, democracy, has several parts to it. Sun Yat-sen looked toward the West and saw the way some countries run. They have popular vote, a democracy. Sun wanted this democracy, but to be able to carry this plan out, he needed more literate citizens. Increasing literacy was a major part of this principle. Last, but not least "people's livelihood" was China striving to increase technology. Sun believed in a better life, with greater technology. This foreshadowed the split between Chinese revolutionaries. Sun had varying opinions and so did the people. Everyone had their own ideas and eventually the ideas became so drastic that the people split and they had their own ideas of how to accomplish their goals.

James,
I like how you said the average Chinese citizen inspired Sun Yat-sen. I never thought about it that way, but it is true. I believed that he was influenced only by the West, but the people from your country can influence you also. If they desire something you want to help them and you look to see if there is a solution. Sun started focusing on the West and leaned many things.

Explain the "Three Principles" of Sun Yat-sen's revolutionary program for China. From what sources might he have derived those ideas? In what respects did they address China's problems at the time? In what respects might they have foreshadowed the later split among Chinese revolutionaries?

The Three Principles of Sun Yat-Sen are ones that were thought to lead China to great success. They included the nationalism, which basically was to regain China's control for itself (such as from the Manchus), so a revolution was in need. The second one is democracy, where the peoples vote could make a difference and the last principle was "people's livlihood", which called for better technology and organization. All these principles were influenced greatly from the Western powers (W. Euro and U.S)The principles reflected the want for self-pride of China, after all their humiliating defeats (Opium War, Boxer Rebellion, etc). since all these principles were ultimately derived from the w. powers (and most of these governments were resulted from a revolution) a revuolution was inevitable.

As we all know, Sun Yet-sen’s ‘Three Principles’ were nationalism, democracy, and people’s livelihood. Yat- sen’s goal was to make China stronger and more united. It is obvious he was heavily influenced by the west. He looked towards countries like Russia and France to help guide China into a more modern country. Yat-sen also wanted to mold China after America’s democracy. He noticed that after becoming democratic, America flourished. His third principle was about people’s livelihood. He figured that if people were happy, not only with their lives, but with their government, they would become more intellectual.
The GMD and Communists both found pieces of the Three Principles that they believed in. They took some parts and changed others slightly. The GMD was mostly concerned with the military, whereas the Communists cared more about average people. This led to the split parties, and eventually the revolution

Cindy-

I thought it was funny that you put the question in your answer. Anyways, I like how you pointed out that these principles were made so the Chinese could feel better about their country. I would have been kind of embarrassed after all of those defeats. And you are right, a revolution was bound to happen. Nice Job.

Sun Yat-Sen's three principles were democracy, nationalism, and people's livelihood. These three principles were most likely derived from Sun's observation of the Western world, as the western nations were industrialized, modern, and the gold standard for society. As leader of China, Sun could only want to strive for the greatness which had been achieved by these nations. To do this, he most likely felt that it was paramount that he emulated the political system and social feelings toward the nation and government in his domain. Therefore, he strived for these three principles and hoped to integrate them into Chinese life, culture, and politics. These addressed the then-modern China because the country was divided and was politically unstable, as they had just lost their monarchy which had been in place for two millennia. This simply added to the instability of this already moderately anarchist society.

That last reply was me.

Audrey,
I think that Sun Yat-sen wanted Western influence. That is where he got his second principle from. His idea of democracy came from the west. So he would not want to drive out the west. His nationalism principle probably meant that he wanted to drive out any negative influence, that might hold the country behind. He embraced the west because that is where most of his principles came from. Although I do agree with you on everything else.

Audrey,
I think that Sun Yat-sen wanted Western influence. That is where he got his second principle from. His idea of democracy came from the west. So he would not want to drive out the west. His nationalism principle probably meant that he wanted to drive out any negative influence, that might hold the country behind. He embraced the west because that is where most of his principles came from. Although I do agree with you on everything else.

Priya,
I agree with you. Sun's three principles were only for the betterment of China. He thought that the west was doing great and that China should follow their example. Also he wanted to get rid of the giant gap between rich and poor, to improve society and the economy.

Sun Yat-Sen's three principles were democracy, nationalism, and people's livelihood. I believe he formulated these principles over much traveling in the west and him breaking down the western styled success. He saw how these countries to the west were able to become larger parts in the world and felt that China could someday be at the same level. Nationalism had to play a major part in his principles even being effective because after all this chaos from the "opium wars" then them losing their imperialistic government style, could send them on a downward spiral if the people were not on board. Especially, the peasants who took up most of the Chinese population at the time. The livelihood principle was basically to get his countries industry up to date with the western countries because if anything was to happen his country was at a great disadvantage. Also, he might have felt that his country deserves to be very prosperous and be able to obtain the great luxuries that surrounding countries to the west created or acquired over their own revolutions.

Sun-Yat-Sen's three principles are nationalism, democracy and the people's livelihood. These are three things that every good leaders should have in mind when they come into power. Yet, coming into power and having an opportunity and the over eagerness to do these things is what most often end up in the leaders downfall. There are two ways this new approach to government can go. Good or bad. In the west, this approach mainly went good, but in other parts of the world such as China and Russia, these new ideas caused the already unstable political climate go from bad to worse.

@McKinley: I completely agree. Sun's principles were heavily influenced by Western ideals. These progressive ideals from the west were combined with traditional Chinese values to create the three principles that Sun Yat-sen operated on.

John,
I like how you said that Sun wanted to achieve greatness for his country. All around Sun were countries that were industrialized and modern. They set the standard for what Sun wanted to incorporate into his country. Therefore, Sun really looked to the West to get his ideas and principles and achieve the greatness that he wanted China to have.

The three principals of Sun-Yat-Sen are nationalism, western style parliament, and people's lively hood. In nationalism he hoped to unite china under one banner that was for the people. He knew that dynasties had failed in the past because the alienated their followers. By uniting them he would create a strong front against westerners. They studied how japan had gained strength because of it. In a western style parliament he hoped to obtain what Europe and America. He saw the strength in them but failed to accomplish this goal and the party eventually split. The people's lively hood was all about industrializing and getting caught up with the rest of the world. They had the same problems Russia did. Mao kept this ideal when the communist took over as well in his great leap forward idea. These principal are very similar to what Russia had to go through as well.

it has been stated over and over that sun yat-sens three principles were a western style goverment, nationalism, and peoples livelihood. The frist concept of goverment was not an origional thought all he had to do was face russia and look left, just a hop skip and a jump away were alot of countries practicing the republican style of goverment he wanted. although western technology was wanted, i don't neccesarily know if the PEOPLE of china turuley wanted to simply mock what made another country great, this goverment also has some flaws one it requires alot of very willing,literate and informed people. The second concept is nationalism. If a country is doing something that not many countries are doing, communism, then said countries people would feel somewhat enlightened by the fact that they were "new". Or they could induldge in democracy which came from the foreigners they did not necessarily care for. Without a strong sence of national pride backing your revolution then it falls limp to the strong voice and will of your oponent. I honestly don't know if the Peoples livelihood was put in their because he wanted it or because it was a formallity or possibly a neccesity. Saying he wanted it okay he cares about the people "here we go again with another leader who 'cares about us'" thats what i would be thinking at least im sure they were thinking it to .maybe it was a formallity possibly he wanted this very abrupt industrialization to play super catch up with the west(another stolen idea, are you noticing a trend?).I think this section was more of a Necesity for him, he needed a higher literacy rate, the result was better education. he needed more industrial output, hence revolution. he wanted the gap to be closed between the classes, this in turn makes the country very wealthy. he simply did these things because he needed you to do something for china in return for it nothing was free. He wanted you to read a ballot, voting for him in a strong country. he probabaly could care less how the country got to this point as long as it got there.

@ McKinley and Ajay
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the one point. While the Chinese may have based their ideals on the west, i think that their approach was identical to Russia's. For on they were both communist but ideas like the great leap forward and the 5 year plan are came totally from Russia.

alicia,
I agree with you his haste in doing these things led to the issues. Also if the exact plans were not followed to a t then there the entire plan goes out the window. there is also a large area for interpretation and perversion leading to even more issues.

Sun Yat-sen's "Three Principles" were nationalism, democracy, and "People's Livelihood". He brought these ideas from Western culture. Nationalism called for revolution against foreign control. Democracy was to be based off an extremely Western set up. The "People's Livelihood" was a call for new and improved technologies. Sun derived these principles from the Western World, a lot from America probably. These fit the needs of China at that time because the monarchy had just left so there was need for a strong new government for the people. Also, Sun thought that the people of China needed to be more devoted to their country and finally he noticed that China was behind in technology and needed improvements. This could have foreshadowed the split between the revolutionaries because they had different ideas of how these should be achieved.

The "Three Principles" of Sun Yat-Sen were simple yet understandable. His concepts of democracy (sovereignity) and nationalism were appealing to the people of China and allowed them to stand up to the forgein powers. Also, the principle of livelihood was among the three and contributes the hope of "achieving a desirable living standard" for China by establishing equal ownership of the land. Under the principle of democracy it meant giving the power to the people or making a government by the people. To Sun Yat-Sen it was a western constitutional government and divided his ideal of China into two powers; politics and governance. The principle of nationalism was created under the three to introduce freedom from dominace (imperialism) from the Manchus, and in my opinion unite the different ethnicities of China. Last, but certainly not least, the principle of livelihood could be defined as creating a government for the people (socialism).
As other students stated as well in my beliefs as well he wanted to fill the spaces between the poor and the wealthy.

Cindy -

I like you addition that China had to revive itself from the previous humiliations of the Boxer Rebellion, among other things. Sun Yat-Sen wanted nationalism to be the people's renewed pride in their otherwise-undignified nation. Good thinking!

Sun Yat-Sen’s “Three Principles” were nationalism, democracy, and people’s liveliness. He obtained these ideas from the Western world and the countries around China. He felt that by making these changes, they could move forward into a more united country. He wanted to close the gaps between the rich and the poor, and make the country more democratic because he realized that democracy really helped America. These principals foreshadowed the split of China into the GMD and Communist parties because with every belief, people will agree with some parts and disagree with others. So when Sun Yat-Sen left, Mao and Chiang were left to interpret what he said into their own beliefs.

In short, Sun Yat-sen's three principals were as follows: nationalism, democracy, and people's livelihood. These principals were greatly formulated by western influence. His nationalism was shown while he led an opposition during the Boxer Rebellion to the Manchus and the European and Americans that supported them. His second principal, Democracy, was largely rooted from European and American models, also acknowledging in this that he "claim[ed] the separation of powers as an ancient Chinese tradition" (qtd. in Spodek 680). Lastly his 3rd principal was turned towards western-style technological aspects, but not similar in thier industrializational methods. They adressed the bad economic times and morale of the country quite well and got the attention of the country. A split was foreshadowed possibly because of him not supporting the Marxism ways when it came to land ownership and state power.

Hadley!
I like how you mentioned that China was trying to propel themselves forward into the “new age” and that they modeled themselves after France’s nationalism. Yat-Sen thought that with a united nation without foreigners would better China because them the citizens would feel more connected and act as a whole. He also believed that if they listened to the citizens by using democracy, they could improve China, as you said.

@ Stephanie
I couldn't agree more with all of your information reguarding Sun Yat-sen's three principals. Also it is true that molded these ideas mainly off of western influence. Closing the gaps between the poor also makes sense as well. Finally your statement about how the two parties interpreted the principals of Sun Yat-sen differently was defenitely the cause of the split and makes perfect sense.

Sun Yat-Sen's Three Principles were nationalism, democracy, and the people's liveliness. Each of these ideas was borrowed from the West during Yat-Sen's travels, but they were also adapted to fit China's needs. His idea of nationalism included ridding China of all foreign rule, which forced the Manchu emperor PuYi to abdicate. His broad idea of "the people's liveliness" included bringing appropriate technology to China and improving life for peasants, but doing so in a way that would keep the gap between wealthy and poor citizens very narrow. He wished to use state owned enterprises to make this possible. Although Sun Yat-Sen knew that it was necessary to industrialize China to some extent in order to catch up with the rest of the world, he did not want his country to become corrupt like the industrialized countries of the West. These ideas fueled a revolution, creating the unstable environment in which conflict was ready to brew.

@My Dearest Vicky G-
Agree that Sun Yat-Sen wanted greatness for his country, but I don't recall him looking to Russia for help. I could have just missed something, but wouldn't that make more sense for Mao? Not that it is extremely important, because we both understand that he got his ideas from the outside world. I also agree with your point about the revolutionaries having their own opinions and thus creating conflict in later years.

Sun-Yat-Sen's three principles are nationalism, democracy and the people's livelihood. They helped China progress for the future as they started to grow out of imperialism. Nationalism was to get the people live there country and support it more. The people's livelhood was to get the people to get equal rights so that is bascially, how the communist party worked.

the "Three People's Principles" are things that Sun Yat-Sen came back with later after his visit to the west. The first one is Nationalism, where the nation can come together against foreign control. The second principal was democracy organization. They only had ideas of popular rights, so in order to clear things up and make everything be in stone, they used the ideas that seemed to be working in the West. The third principle was "People's Livelihood." He was stressing the need for new technology, but not Western-style industrialization.
All of these ideas came from the west, naturally. They kind of were the ones who started everything to begin with. The Nationalism was unique, possibly, since they saw that no one else had such a uni-race population. Democracy is self explanatory, and the people's livelihood was most likely seeing that having machines is faster and more cost efficient, as the West clearly models.
These all addressed China's problems at the time because they had no organized form of government. Nationalism was awful with all the Warlords so unification was non existent. Also, they were seriously slacking in the technology department, so Livelihood was a necessity to not be so far behind the rest of the world.
This all could have foreshadowed the split of china because nationalism was already an extremely unstable idea in china, since all the Warlords split China up so thoroughly. Democracy was something that the Chinese were not used to at all, and human nature is to not like new things. After 2000 years of living a certain way, a different life style is clearly not going to be welcomed in. Technology also pertains to change, and how the Chinese were happy with their secluded lives. Although they were not as modern, they still had everything it took to live. This isn't the main reason for split, though. The other two Principles had more to do with it.

To me-

Oh my gosh. you went so in depth. That was remarkable.

XD

@Ross,

I don't think that is how the communist party worked, considering that Sun was all for the GMD. He was more socialist/democratic. I also don't believe that they exactly helped China, considering that Sun completely failed and was the reason why the Communist party was able to take charge in the first place....

Sun Yat-Sen had three basic principles. The first was to expel foreign influence, especially the negative affects such as the Opium Wars from Europe. He desired nationalism, and he rid China of all foreigner power in hopes of uniting the people. The second principle was democracy. In an attempt to solve social issues within China, Sun Yat-Sen presented a new system that would replace the corrupt imperial government that had been in place for thousands of years. He wished for a higher rate of literacy, and thus the ability to vote. The last principle was people’s livelihood. He knew that China lacked in technology, and they were in desperate need of it to catch up with the rest of the world. He also did not want such distinct class separations, although the technology that he wished to introduce would contradict this. This foreshadowed the split between the two groups because each group used these principles, although each used a different process to achieve their goals.

Carly,

I agree with your statement about their ideas coming from the West. It was obvious that the West was having much success from their way of living, and the chinese wished to progress and thrive just as much.

That last post was from me, sorry.

alex,

I couldn't agree with you more! you basically said what i said in a summarized fashion. all of this led to the revolution, for sure!

Sun Yat-Sen introduced three new principles to China during his rule. These were a democracy, a sense of nationalism, and what is called the People's Livelihood.
A democracy and nationalism would provide China with it's ultimate goal which was a sense of unification. After so many years of government unrest and struggle for power between leaders, Yat-Sen hoped to unify China and not differentiate in government between areas within.
The People's Livelihood referred to China's large sense of isolationism. Here, China was entirely cut off from the rest of the world. Some could even say the were greedy. The Chinese had all that they needed in their country and felt no need to expand to other countries. They refused to sell their rare goods to others because "they needed nothing from other countries". The People's Livelihood would cancel this and introduce other influences.
The split during the Chinese Revolution was between the GMD's and the Communist Party which shows Sun Yat-Sen's influence. Mao and Chiang (the leaders of these split parties) drew their influence from Sun's principles. Obviously some would disagree with what he had to say and some would agree as well.

Audrey, I agree that Sun Yat-Sen influenced Mao & Chiang and their struggles did lead to the formation of the Communist Party. The fact that he wished to lessen the gap between the rich and the poor is something I was interested in. I think this can be similar to the ideas of Communism where everyone is created equal. Therefore, Sun's influence on Mao and Chiang is evident.

Josh, I agree with your description of the three principles. I found it interesting that you mentioned Sun Yat-Sen hoped these would lead to a long-lasting, organized, problem-free government. This is not the case, actually, since after his death, the leaders Mao and Chiang emerged. They definitely created conflict within China and changed the government which Sun Yat-Sen tried, in vain, to impose.

@Rachel
I agree with the fact they wanted to uses western technology, and unite the country through nationalism. I just think it was odd of them to want what the west had but hating the west at the same time. They wanted are technology and government, but we don't want you. Kind of a double standard. Japan embraced foreigners help and brought in western people to help them modernize. It turn out pretty well don't you think. Anyways it seems as though sun wants it both ways, and thats why his policy failed.

Alyysa O-

I like how you talked about China being cut off from the rest of the world. I agree, it was a bit greedy for them to not sell their products to other countries because they needed nothing in return. This must have been hard for countries that were used to trading with China, they no longer were able to trade products they usually had. Good Job.

Alyssa O,

I like how you talked about China's isolation and no need for anything else outside of its boundaries. I think this could be a reason why people felt ill towards China, for they made trading and receiving goods hard.

Carly!
I like how you said that the idea of nationalism was unique. I didn't really think about that until you said that no one else had a country with only one race. I also like how you said that technology was a necessity. This is also true because they were so far behind the other countries, that they needed to somehow bring themselves up. Thus, Yat-Sen created the people's nationalism. ¡Muy bien!

Sun Yat-sen's 3 principles are not very difficult. The first, democracy, was what he belived would finally unit China. They would finally become a nation that would share all that they accomplished. Their nationalism would, hopefully, prevent them from falling apart again, he wanted his country to come together and stay together. He also wanted People's Livelyhood, this would cancel China's life f lonlyness and isolation. He wished for them to embrace other influences that might make their country better.

Alyssa:)
I like how you said China's ultimate goal was the sense of unification, which is exactly want China wanted at that time. It's very true that Sun Yat-Sen wanted this for China. I also like what you said about "people's livlihood" because China really did isolate themselves from the world and needed new ideas from other countries.

Alyssa:)
I like how you said China's ultimate goal was to find that sense of unification because that really is want China wanted at the time. That is also what Sun Yat-Sen wanted for China, thus his 3 principles. I also like that you included the fact that China was isolated from the world because they really were and needed influence from other countries, thus the principle of "people's livelihood".

Alyssa:)
I like how you said China's ultimate goal was to find that sense of unification because that really is want China wanted at the time. That is also what Sun Yat-Sen wanted for China, thus his 3 principles. I also like that you included the fact that China was isolated from the world because they really were and needed influence from other countries, thus the principle of "people's livelihood".

@ Alex M.
I completely agree with all of the points you made. It is true that Sun did derive his principals largely from western influence and all of your descriptions of his principals made perfect sense. Also I know know that Manchu's emperor was PiYu and apparently he was forced to abdocate. Good points

Mikayla:)
I agree with you that Sun Yat-Sen's principles weren't too difficult to comprehend. Democracy, nationalism, and people's livelihood is indeed what he thought would make China better. I also like how you connected democracy and nationalism, by saying democracy will bring China together and nationalism will keep China unified.

@ Alex M.
I completely agree with all of the points you made. It is true that Sun did derive his principals largely from western influence and all of your descriptions of his principals made perfect sense. Also I know know that Manchu's emperor was PiYu and apparently he was forced to abdocate. Good points

Mikayla:)
I agree with you that Sun Yat-Sen's principles weren't too difficult to comprehend. Democracy, nationalism, and people's livelihood is indeed what he thought would make China better. I also like how you connected democracy and nationalism, by saying democracy will bring China together and nationalism will keep China unified.

Cindy, thank you for agreeing with me. Alex, you make a very good point about how Yat-sen changed his principles so that they would build the country that he wanted, I didn't think of that. Carly, you were right, one might have forshadowed the split of China coming from some of these ideas.his plans did not go over to well.

@Carly-
I agree with you that Sun Yat-Sen's three principles were nationalism, democracy, and the people's liveliness, but I do not agree that his idea of nationalism was completely original. Japan also had a homogeneous population, allowing them to have the same kind of nationalism. If any of Yat-Sen's ideas were original it was his idea of the people's livelihood, which took a completely different route than that of the Western countries.

Sun Yat-Sen's three principles were nationalism democracy and the people's liveliness. Nationalism I'm sure came from earlier times or had developed already before he had said anything. For example, the French Revolution had nationalism. Democracy was obviously an idea from the west. The Greeks had it and the Romans as well to a certain extent. And during his time the U.S. had it and was prosperous. people's livelihood like Carly said was original. China was very isolated from the rest of the world and really needed to step up. And they did. Many of the Chinese people wanted democracy however but many also wanted to stick to tradition. They really needed change and I don't think that being exactly like the west would achieve that. However, Sun Yat-Sen's ideas were very nice.

@ Mikayla:

I also agree that yes his principles were quite simple. We've all heard of these terms and they usually are what make up a successful country. You need nationalism and pride and passion for one's country. Democracy is a another common term that has proved successful and fullfilling to the public. Finally people's liveliness because you need be open to other countries and or you'll fall behind. They were quite isolated.